When do Narcissists lie….when don’t they?
This Frequently Asked Question is easily one of my favorites. I am so glad you asked.
When I dredge up the memories of the N that I have buried deep in my sub conscious, I don’t think there was a conversation…correction, a speech of the N’s that wasn’t filled with lies.
Once again, I correct myself when using the word “conversation” since it is really not possible to have a conversation with a narcissist. They do all the talking and if the “conversation” ever deviates from the Narcissist himself, he will either get sullen or get sullen and leave.
Him leaving is the very best of options.
Just changing the subject (being about him) during a “conversation” can result in D & D.
The N lies about everything. Education, job experience(s), relationships, family, friendships, feelings…the N doesn’t have any feelings except the ones he mirrors from others. Oh, and the stories that he hears from “normal “people…his sources of Narcissistic supply…those become his stories too.
He did those things.
He’ll tell you all about them….in fabulous, colorful detail…because that’s the way they were told to him. When you respond in awe at his fantastic tall tales of courage, valor and bravery (think Paul Bunyan) it will possibly earn you an even higher level position in the Pyramid of narcissistic supply.
No entry level position for you. Nope.
Don’t we all want to move from Primary source of supply to the all important Secondary source of supply?
(Sarcasm.)
I know.
It’s twisted. I’m just reporting what I’ve read and researched. This really should be the other way around…but…
Primary supply givers are those that provide sustenance to the Narcissist on a random/casual basis.
I just love that word…”casual.” I just casually lost my self esteem to the narcissist.
Secondary sources of supply are those in a “relationship” (notice those quotation marks!) with the narcissist. Those that provide supply on a regular basis….a spouse…(God help her)…friends, (oops…remember the narcissist really doesn’t have any)…co-workers/colleagues, business partners…(get out while you can) teachers…(so sorry) neighbors…(you could always move…)
Sorry…brief tangent….
In looking back, I remember how the N lied so convincingly.
Would he have passed a lie detector test?
I don’t know. The N believed his ‘own press’ to the point that the lies became truth.
He was a legend in his own mind.
Have you ever heard that when a person lies they often look to the left… and they don’t look you in the eye?
The N demonstrated this several times. If I had not been so throughly indoctrinated by the Narcissist, I would have stood up and said “Liar!”
Doing this would have been appropriate, as that is what the N is….A Liar.
…(Seated on the floor of the Senate and shouting out “Liar” is really bad manners, no matter what your party affiliation…)
I’ve come to realize that the ex-N in my life lied by omission. He’d say, “I’m sure I told you that! ” Nope. He told me lots of stories, and I as the el primo primary supply listened intently. Later, I realized I couldn’t even be sure any of his stories were real.
Everything Ns say is for effect. Nothing more.
The N I knew always made up stories that were meant to confuse or hurt. Sarcasm was his main form of communication. He loved it when someone believed one of his falsehoods.
My ex-N loved to be the center of attention….from his adoring fans. Unlike your version of N, mine seemed to be able to lie to the point that those around him were completely conned by his lies.
He was convinced and even bragged about his lies being so convincing that he could pass a lie detector any day of the week. What a loser I felt like; he had me believing his lies for years.
I will never know if the rest of his supply saw through his lies. The most important thing is that I finally did. He is sick, and he has moved on to greener or should I say more gulliable pastures.
After a 6 year relationship (3 years of marriage) my N walked out leaving me with a massive amount of debt and feeling confused and hurt. My sister first mentioned NPD to me and I have been reading and researching since. My N from the reading I have done has a very severe disorder. The cruel things he did before he left were baffeling to all of my family until I found out about this disorder. Some of the literature indicates that only 1 in 100,000 people have this disorder but I do not believe that is true. It is just under diagnosed. As part of my healing process I want to make this disorder more public. I have started a blog on Oprah.com. What better way to reach millions of women than to get Oprah interested?
I met my N on Match.com which is evidently a great resouce for Supply to them. If more women and men know the warning signs perhaps they won’t end up with a N. I encourage everyone to help me spread this message. There are so many people out there suffering and not knowing why.
Sara: I am so sorry that you suffered abuse at the hands of an individual you trusted. I hope that during your research and education of others you are able to heal. It is a long way up.
It hurts so much how he made me feel bad, then good, then left me with a newborn. Which was his IDEA to have a baby as he had none, and I already had 4 children and I didn’t want anymore. Within 10 Months of leaving me he has had 2 relationships and numerous “Saturday night knee tremblers.” I can’t get over how nasty and heartless he has been to me and the children. He walked past me and his baby in town and blanked us. I can’t cope with why he was like this and left without giving us a second glance.
Dear Brenda: It would be my hope that the child you had with the N will not bear the stigma and grief of having to hear his mother say that he was not wanted.
I am so very sorry that this happened to you and deeply grieved that an innocent life is involved. I hope that you can more past this for the sake of your children and the child you had with the N.
It is very difficult to wrap ones mind around the abuse and behavior of the N. The little information that you share here is so very typical of a narcissist.
ES
The N i knew makes a proffession out of lying….he now claims to be living in paris ….I told a friend he uses “Lyan air ” ( Ryan air) when he ‘lies back and forth between countries…
while thinking ‘play of words’ i also came to realse that when he rep-lied to me in our chats he mostly was repeated lying…
at first i thought some stories seemed far fetched but let him off, he was young and maybe didnt have as many funny stories to tell as me…. oh how easily i made excuses for him…..
I know he lies, some others know it…but a LOT of people are totally fooled by his lies…..and his ‘friends’ dont bat an eye when he lies to others infront of them…. amazing how these people somehow colour our perception of what is ok
I remember once i was talking to a new friend of his about how we met…it became clear hed told her a different story to the truth. Did i say NO thats not right we met this way….oh no…..i suddenly said how id got confused and kind of hoped the language barrier between us would help me bluff it out. Hello????? why on earth did i feel the need to cover his back and protect him?
glad to be out of that situation but still suffering at times…how on earth anyone can get such a hold on another amazes me…
HUGS
Hi, I sent this link to a friend whose daughter can’t get over her boyfriend dumping her. He was definitely a narcissist, but she thinks she did something wrong. What she did wrong is not recognize he was a narcissist, which is so hard to do in the beginning. They are so good at first at being everything you want and need them to be! Thanks.
Hi Catherine:
Sometimes when a young woman has ‘stars’ in her eyes, it’s hard to see the red flags a’wavin….shoot even for an old woman. I feel for your friend’s daughter. I was not aquainted with “dumping” – boyfriend or friend for that matter – I could not understand the aburpt about face and the subsquent abuse from the individual who had been a “friend.” They are so very good at mirroring the behavior that we want and need….until the mirror gets cloudy.
ES
The most hurtful part of the way the relationship ended for this young woman is the abrupt about face you described above in the behavior of the man who had mirrored everything the young woman had wanted in the relationship. She thought they were soulmates from the first day, and he encouraged her in this belief. And then suddenly, after telling her on a Friday when they were together that they would also spend the day together on Saturday, he never called her again. She called him late that Saturday, wondering what had happened to him. He said he’d decided to spend the day alone reading a book! She saw him a week later at an art fair with another woman, which tore her up. Still, later she saw him at a concert by himself. She was glad he was alone, but still hurt that he could have gone with her. She still doesn’t get that there is no hope with a person like him.
That behavior (on the part of the Narcissist) is so sad and so very familiar. I hope her mom encourages her to read here and do research on this personality disorder. It takes a long time to wrap your mind around something so alien. It was only when I understood What I was dealing with could I even begin to grasp how lucky I was to have the parasite gone from me. I remember when I thought there was hope…that I could fix the narcissist. It was a turning point for me when I realized that I couldn’t.
ES
The N likes to rearrange stories and rewrite history. He’ll put words in your mouth or swear he or you said something that, of course, would benefit him and make him right because he “is never wrong.” We are the only delusional ones who don’t know what we’re talking about. We are the one’s creating scenarios or stories to discount the N. It’s always our fault…it’s never the N’s fault…boo f-ing hoo!
If you google “Kaleah LaRoche” you will find excellent help with Narcissistic Abuse. It is very real and very serious. I would just like to comment that the N. in my life spoke and carried on conversations in a sort of “code” language, code to himself Lol ! a disguised, deceitful manner which you would never really know what he’s saying , he was not able to say one straight sentence with any real words that had the right meaning. For instance, once when I confronted him about a town he went to with another woman and shopped for antiques and they stayed at a bed & breakfast inn- His response was “No, I have never stayed in that town with her” What he did not say was “the bed & breakfast we stayed at was three blocks out of town so that means we did not stay at one in that town and I have never cheated on you” ( a lie) lie’s and more lies…Once he told me he was helping a shelter get their needs met and what he meant was he slept with a woman and got a donation out of her. And I guess he felt triumphant.
My ex-N always says he’s five years younger than what he is, has a masters degree (not true) and he uses God alot to hook women, he has even told them he has a priest robe in his closet.
Here is an example of how a N. speaks. Just listen to this country song by Kevin Fowler called “Ain’t Drinkin’ Anymore ”
I’ve been goin’ out every night havin’ a ball
Comin’ home about a quarter to two
Oh you said that you’d be leavin’
If you didn’t start seein’
A change in me really soon
You said it’s gettin’ really old
And that you wanna be told
That I ain’t a drinkin’ no more
Well now honey here it goes,
Better listen close
I ain’t a drinkin’ anymore
Nope I ain’t a drinkin’ not a one beer
But honey I must confess
I ain’t a drinkin’ anymore…
But I ain’t drinkin’ any less.
They talk in circles !
Dear Karen: Yup you’re an expert on N – lies.
I don’t know how they are able to carry on any form of a conversation – How do they remember what lies they have told to whom?
In any case – I am continually grateful not to be dealing with his insanity anymore.
ES
I don’t think that all Narcs are secure individuals. The Narc I was seeing thrived on compliments although deep down, I could tell he was a very insecure, unhappy man. So I don’t think that they all believe they are wonderful?? Unless he pretended he was insecure to receive compliments. Not sure.
Sounds like my ex N
About … Narcs and TV …and legend 😀
My ex N loved … Scrubs, Futurama and The Simposons; nothing wrong with that, BUT … he watched and watched and watched these shows over and over compulsively and laughing without really seeming genuinely amused, don’t know if u understand what I mean.
I forgot to say … his true hero was sarcastic Dr.House! 😀
He was well past his thirties and he used to sit for hours and hours after lunch and dinner watching these shows and (fakely) laughing his ass off, while I was there cleaning the kitchen wondering why he tried so hard at that forceful strange laugh!
If u hardly knew him, U might (wrongly) thing that his life was full of comedy… he was literally surrounded by woody allen and comics and shows and books which are supposed to make people laugh! IN TRUTH (after u know him) … he is the most terribly negative, manic depressive, dead-serious, whimpering, me-victim self-pitying (‘specially when unloading his misery onto others), unhumorous, bored and boring (… ext.) individual I have ever known in my whole life! It was all a FACADE, an attempt to fake happiness and amusement in life (and he hated the amusement of other people … and carefully avoided all social activities where he’d see people enjoying themselves)!
He also idolized Peter Sellers. One night he had me to sit there next to him watching The Party … for the first minutes he was FORCEFULLY trying his best to display his amusement during the opening scene in which Sellers plays the trumpet and stops and then plays again and then stops and then again … i remember i FELT there was something not genuine in the way he was laughing (like he was just an actor practicing badly): IN FACT he suddenly and unexpectedly stopped laughing and in a very sinister way he ABRUPTLY turned his face away from the tv screen and started staring at me attentively and he had a dark serious and inquisitive look in his eye. He said nothing, … needless to say: I was NOT impressed! 😀
Can u believe it?! A SECOND before he had been faking laughter and a SECOND later he had been dreadfully serious and quietly staring at me! Soooo creepy!
About “a lengend in his own mind” ;)… I totally agree that Ns always try their best to look legendarily unique … he used to say that he never laughs at things that make people laugh and that he always laughs like hell at things that people never laugh about!!! :DDDD NO WONDER that he tries so hard to pretend he laughs his ass off at things about which people never laugh about… probably NOT funny at all!!! :DDDD But of course he doesn’t care: HE HAS TO PRETEND that he has a special sense of humour, even if he has to make an effort pretending (he usually does anyway!)!…
Now I can see it so clearly, it all adds up: he felt COMPETITIVE with me about being a cheerful person; WHY u might ask? (In fact I admit to u that it took me quite a while to figure out why!… AS SIMPLE AND STUPID IT MIGHT SEEM (and IT IS (simple and stupid), like all things-N!). Here’s why: just BECAUSE his friends (the nice ones who somehow knew how sick he was) always used to praise me for being a cheerful girl who was able to keep my good humour even though i had to put up with him, and also I was very spontaneous in laughing and being sociable, and was often described as a very sunny girl with a nice sense of humour, and people liked me … therefore (out of envy and to deny and belittle my worth as a nice cheerful person that is able to make other people feel good and smiling when around me) … he suddenly (and inexplicably) told me that:
1) I was “too serious” (to deny and annull the thing about which I was admired by his friends, but he said this out of context and only now I UNDERSTAND what it was all about! :D)
2) and that HE was special and laughed on his own!!!! (to explain why people never enjoyed themselves around him!) :D… in HIS twisted mind: It wasn’t because he is a sour mean sadistic individual that makes people around him feel uncomfortable and scared … NO … in his mind it was beacuse he was UNIQUE and SPECIAL and they do not UNDERSTAND his humour, so THEY are stupid and HE is a genius!!!!!!!!!!! :DD
Anyway … it is just such a relief when u suddenly figure out what’s behind the deep concealed and rebus-like meaning of strange things N say that normally leave u wondering for ages without an answer that U FEEL the right explanation! But when u somehow finally do, like a switch clicking in ur brain, … u just cannot believe how simple and STUPID the hidden meaning was … and how it all was ABOUT HIMSELF (about what the Narc was envious/unhappy about himself!) and not really about the person it was referred to (his unfortunate Supply)!!!!!! 😀
You can read about some of the things you mention here at Suite 101 – the Sam Vanikin site.
He is an N who for some strange reason (pathology) has decided to “OUT” N-behavior and share knowledge with those of us who were abused by N’s. It is amazing really, that he is helping – I think that he has figured out that being kind is a way to get N-Supply. Some of my readers cannot even stand to see his picture, and others can’t bear to wade through all his posts to find what they are looking for. But, if you are up for it – he rips through the BS about some of the things that left us (colectively) scratching our heads. He is a cerebral N, so he uses the “$2 (US) words” when a .50cent word would have done just fine.
Sadly, I do know EXACTLY what you mean about the fake, phony laughter.
The N I knew would have laughed if someone was in pain. In fact, he took great delight if someone was in pain.
His TV shows of choice were the superhero shows – Superman, Smallville etc. I know that he watched other shows because those life experience on the shows…. (the scripts??) those became things that ACTUALLY happened to him and these were part of his stories that he told people. The snappy lines of dialog that make us, (normal people) laugh? Those became part of his conversations. I wonder now and then if he had cue cards or if he had written the sayings on his hand…..
Did you fear for your life when he turned and stared at you during the Peter Sellers movie?
I have seen the look of which you speak. Yes, I can believe it – he sounds lie a psycho. Sorry to say, glad you got out in one piece.
Yes, the “special”, “unique” sense of humor and the rest – it is part of what Vanikin says “that they think they are God.”
ES
Well, honestly, I never really feared him…. but then again it was only because I was never really able to BELIEVE that he was (really) mean and violent (even though I could SEE he was!), … like I was never able to believe that he WAS …. AND FOR REAL! …it is as though I thought that he was a nice man who did bad without really wanting to be bad or without really being bad, like I sincerely FELT that he SOMETIMES (other times he was satisfied) looked uncomfortable and discontented/unhappy whenever he was mean (but I never justified him,it’s just that I couldn’t help feeling that he was not well when he was bad).
Only NOW I realize that it doesn’t make sense, it’s even laughable (to think that he was bad without really being bad FOR REAL!), but somehow it seemed the only POSSIBLE thing to be! By the way … he is a Joseph Heller fan … Catch 22. He was SOO CONTRADICTORY … like he was 2 different people in one!
Anyway … It took me so long to realize and ACCEPT that HE IS bad… I just simply could never imagine that someone could BE … because I had never met somebody as mean as he is, so I just couldn’t BELIEVE it as a real possibility! Like… if u can’t UNDERTAND it how can u BELIEVE it?!?! How can anyone be MEAN … FOR REAL?!
I thought that he would never really harm me, unless he was acting out of rage, and even if he raged I assumed that he might be able to know better and … BE HUMAN.
Luckily (for me!!!!!) I am an exceptionally mild-tempered girl, and I always try to avoid confrontation or animosity (I hate arguing),…so (because of my fight-avoiding character) I never pushed him to the limits …so I only rarely got a glimpse of his violent side. But I did see it anyway, and most surprisingly, I SAW it whenever it might have been LESS likely that he would have a reason to have a fit of rage!!! Which is EXTRAORDINARILY INCOMPRHENSIBLE!!!
One night, he suddenly became very nervous and “uncomfortable” (I sensed that he was annoyed that I was there) and he hit me ABRUPTLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, no reason whatsoever, no arguing (I had just kneeled beside him where he had been sitting, to ask him if he was alright) … and he hit me with all the weight of his arm pressing with his fist on my body with all his violent rage and SO QUICKLY! The most absurd thing was the TIME it took him: he had been sitting as still and mute as one could be, and suddenly he just lifted the arm (so enraged like he hated me so much), all within a second. I suddenly was there on the floor feeling pain, dumb and humiliated. He was so quick and unexpected that he didn’t even give me the time to REALIZE what had just been happening OUT OF THE BLUE! I admit I was mostly shocked than bruised, and he seemed bewildered too, like he said “are u alright?”!
About gaslightning (and the time he hit me) … a year later after he discarded me I met him by chance and we talked (I made the effort) and he suddenly seemed willing to contribute to the conversation (at first he had been avoiding), and I said if he would accompany me for a while (it was after a play at the theatre), so he told me “u know what is the most dangerous place for a woman?” and I said “i don’t know, the house … because she gets beaten by the husband?” … and he was taken-aback, he said “it’s the house, but I meant to say it was because of the housework”. So I added … (jokingly as if I was saying “do u remember the time we went camping”)… “do u remember the time u hit me?” and he said (without looking at me, seemingly uncomfortable, but not really in complete denial) “No” … but, strangely enough, when I said “U did, u hit me on the …” (I mumbled because I couldn’t think of the word to describe where he hit me) … then he completed the sentence for me … “on the clavicle”. So he DID remember after all!!!
I don’t know Elisse if it’s true of all Ns, but my N was “oddly” sincere… in fact SO SINCERE that I didn’t BELIEVE him!
I remember one evening at a dinner with his friends: he had been poking fun at a handicapped man, and he had even wanted for me to participate in the game (which of course I refused, feeling more surprised and confused than ever that he COULD be making fun of that poor guy) ….when we came back at his apartment, I asked him “Why do u do that? Why do u treat him like that?AND … WHY on earth did u want me to join u in making fun of him?! ” and u know what he said?!?!? He simply LOOKED at me like he wanted to challenge me, and very sarcastically and with a tone of “matter-of-fact” in his voice and also as if he thought I was dumb he replied “Because I AM like that!” (his mocking eyes seemed to bear the caption: can’t u see it?!). It really felt like he was telling me: There’s no reason why, I AM that way! As if he was ANNOYED that I thought that what he did was mean, like it might be acceptable, just like one CAN accept that someone doesn’t like coffee or lemonade!
Anyway, now I know that maybe I should have feared him (I’m still not sure) because once, in the first two months of our relationship, we were walking back from the cinema, strolling by the stream, and u know what he told me?! (I thought he was only being funny and joking) He said: “well, why do u trust strolling around with me, i could make u take a swim” … and then he (jokingly) added that since he had called me earlier on, then he couldn’t do it even if he had wanted! I remember that I thought that he was simply being brotherly, and that he was telling me off for being too trusty, and that he was being joking too.
Only now I realise that just because he SAID that (even if he was only joking) meant that he HAD THOUGHT that (jokingly or not!), and who can tell if he was being brother-like-protective or just mean?!
Also for his stare … it was a common stare of his, and he did it also when he thought I wasn’t aware that he did it, like once I was unsetting the table and he was sitting far (television and table set between us), and I FELT his stare, I lifted my eyes … and he had that ODD IRONIC smiley smirk once again, eyes voraciously staring at me (I STILL WONDER AND HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE WAS THINKING ABOUT! I WISH I KNEW).
Anyway, I don’t know just how much sick he is, the night he discarded me I sensed that he had been about to hit me (because he had suddenly become very stiff and he didn’t want me to touch not even his arm, and was looking up at the ceiling away from me, and he seemed like he was trying to keep from hitting me), so I was so afraid he might hit me (I can’t explain why I KNEW he wanted to hit me!) … so I said it out loud “Do u want to hit me now?DO u?” (I said this while I was crying) and his reaction was strange: his muscles seemed to relax and he seemed afraid and he quickly looked at me with preoccupation and he said “No no I don’t” and he moved away and I KNEW that he would not hit me NOW, but I kept feeling that he would have, unless I asked him if he had wanted to! Really Elisse, I don’t know how to explain why I FELT so sure he would, it’s like I knew. But of course I’ll never know, and I’ll never understand why he suddenly was scared, and why his boiling rage stopped once I let him know that I knew he wanted to hit me.
Thank u for ur help Elisse, understanding is important, I really think that only my willingness (stubborness?) to understand helped me get over him and gave me the courage to SEE him for what he really is! And now I can’t resist feeling humorous and making up jokes about him and all the silly things he said, it’s like I really think he is the stupidest individual I have ever met, and since he is incapable of human feelings, I cannot help but laugh at his stupidity … he wouldn’t CARE anyway … except for being annoyed or pissed off (he is incapable of feeling sad)! As for the relationship between Ns and God :D… he had Fight Club (the book) on his shelf among other books and he underlined several things, about depression in life and being possessed by the furniture in one’s house :D… and in particular the line about god saying “what u have to consider is the possibility that God doesn’t like u … “.
I don’t think that Ns really want to BE gods … I think that what they want is even more megalomaniac: obviously he thinks he IS the centre of the world … and that god is his most illustrious and prestigious Supply or caregiver or whatever suits him best (I secretly believe that he really meant to substitute the word “god” with “mother”)!! :DDDDD
Kirsten: What a frightening post. I am so sorry you’ve had to go through this. He was a psycho.
Yes, I am familiar with the N giving the victim a “warning” of what was to come.
The N did this a few times to me. I cannot describe the scene to you, but I do know what you are talking about.
He had been thinking of ways to hurt you – so scary.
Glad you are putting him behind you.
ES
P.S. I almost forgot … about the “odd” sincerity of my ex-N… somehow I believe that Ns sometimes really give us clues about what they are, it’s like they warn us (my ex-N boyfirend did), maybe they do because it makes them feel mysterious or secretive or to distract/confuse us, or maybe they just want to be able to tell us later that they had warned us and we were the dumb ones who didn’t listen to them (because they know we cannot really make sense of their clues at first!) … so he once told me “U shouldn’t TRUST me. U really should not. … U know who I care about?! … (and he then added) MYSELF!” … By the way … I have an opinion on their self-awareness (my opinion based on moments where he seemed slightly “out of N character”, and surely NOT based on romantic figments of my imagination) …genuinely (totally unromantic conjecture I assure!) I think that there were times when my ex-N could no longer pretend to believe in his own perfection…and he does sense at times that he is different than most other people and that he is “mean” (by nonN standards, and not happy about his own meanness). I think that inside he knows he SHOULD not be mean but still he can’t help it and so he gets angry and even more mean than before, or he becomes sarcastic, histerically telling the world “because i am” (like he said to me). And since he is no fool (stupid but not utterly fool … mad maybe, but “no fool”:D), I believe that he has enough IQ to realize that his life would be easier if he could enjoy life like other people seem to (I can SEE he envies them and he wishes he was like them, even if he pretends and claims that everyone else is less than he is).
It is really logical: if he was happy about being mean he wouldn’t feel the necessity or bother to convince HIMSELF that everyone else is less sincere than he is, like (in his twisted mind) he has convinced himself that people with feelings and empathy are just faking it, and that we are worse than he is, because at least he doesn’t fake! But maybe he doesn’t even need to convince himself, maybe Ns REALLY cannot BELIEVE that we (normal people) are good-hearted, they don’t UNDERSTAND it…. just as much as we cannot really BELIEVE (and understand) that Ns are cold and unfeeling and unable to feel compassion. So, seen from this perspective … it just really makes sense that they look for movies and books to interact with us (just like we read self-help books to learn to interact with them because they act like aliens from another planet:D): UNBELIEVABLE but true, Ns don’t understand us as much as we don’t understand them. It took me a while to look at it from reversed roles, I admit it never really occurred to me before.
From this perspective I figure that it must be really confusing and strange for them to try to figure out the way we (normal people) feel and act in life (my take is that they never will, just like we never will really understand their meanness … we’d have to BE like them to feel how they feel!) … just like Ns look like a rebus to us, we are a rebus to them!… the bewilderment MUST be reciprocal somehow!
It’s strange that I never thought about it before, it just feels less annoying now that I realize that Ns are just as aghast as we are! That’s also why they manipulate us, because … (matter of fact) they simply can’t get along with nonNs, unless they pretend they are normal for a while to keep us around!!!! So they either 1) be themselves ALONE; or 2) pretend and delay to show their meanness until we fall for them (and keep us there with the rollercoaster strategy)! … in fact we (nonNs) don’t need to manipulate each other like they do, because we can get along and understand each other by simply being ourselves (i.e. by being nonNs), spontaneously, no games, no pretending! But what if we have to deal with Ns?! … we have to KNOW how to “talk” to them (if we HAVE to, of course;D)! Similarly … Ns look for ways to “interact” with them until they get too much pissed off in the effort to deal with us, like we are too stupid for them! 😀
P.P.S. I am sorry if I “contradicted” the opinion of the N who gives out “p.ov.wisdom” about Ns ;)… but, like I said, I believe that Ns are even more ambitious than simply wanting “to BE god” … I believe that they’d rather BE THEMSELVES (anyone better than that?!) … i.e. BE the centre of the universe … and god (simply) BE their humble (but nevertheless prestigious and illustrious) supply attending to their needs and contemplating its own perfect and wonderful creation: the N! What better spousal/parenting supply than that??? To an N it’s either: rivalry or “i envy u enough so I lower u to the rank of primary supply for ME!” :DDDD
Kirsten: Don’t apologize. Vankin is hard to read and sometimes even harder to decipher what he is saying exactly. I think the N I knew faniced himself “like God.” There was a heavenly being once who “wanted to be like God” and we know what happened to him. 🙂
ES