I am a wife, mother, daughter, sister, aunt, a fierce and loyal friend. I am a survivor, a bibliophile, a photographer & a scrapbooker. A translator, a referee, a nanny, a tutor, a shoulder to cry on.
If you were to make the foolish choice to interfere with my family or one of my “cubs”, I would easily become a mother grizzly bear just awake from hibernation. Fair warning.
I’ll vouch for the fierce and loyal friend part. I want to have you in my corner because I know you’re also a formidable opponent!
I am new here and would love to share my story.
I am separated from bpd spouse, which was my idea. I asked him to leave when his rage and lack of communication became unbearable. We have done this many times throughout our 8 yrs together.
I however, am always the one begs and begs for him to return. This time, he moved in with what I once considered a single mom friend struggling to survive. I learned of this arrangement after they finalized their deal.
I begged for him to return, felt guilty for asking him to leave, and truthfully needed his financial support as I am between RN jobs. He has been fairly supportive first 2 months with financial assistance. Refuses to reconcile, threatens divorce and wanting me to leave him the f#44 alone, which I manage a few days, then feel guilty or forgiving and try to be decent for our 7 yr old son’s sake.
Ex may be civil 1 day and angry, dismissive the next. I told my therapist sometimes I feel like the bpd, when clinically I know I am not…however now codependent. I actually diagnosed him after several suicide attempts when I asked him to leave.
I truly have strong positive days, and lean on a few supportive friends, but some days I feel deprived of a much needed drug, devalued, hurt and you name it. And I reach out. When will I learn he says no contact and means it?
Why am I so powerless feeling? I am the homeowner, main bread winner and the one who got him qualified for his nice V.A. disability checks and social security disability. I know I deserve better. I know we trigger each other’s PTSD, but I feel like he did love me, and I know I love him to this day. I’d be lying if I said I don’t still harbor hope for reconciliation, especially since I now have my own therapist and he has his.
Everyone admires my strengths as a woman, and I empower others.
WTF is wrong with me here?
Please help me here!!!
Lost in SC
Dana:
Well, I am not a therapist but I would asking them what I should do.
I realize that you have a child together but I would stay NC as much as possible.
I would be working on my self and making damn sure that I keep the home environment stable and secure for my 7 yr old child.
That’s what I would be doing.
ES
Hello, mother grizzly bear! =)
Hey– where’s your email link? 🙂
http://alexandranouri.wordpress.com/
Cheers-
Alex
Alex – So glad you found my blog!
Thank you very much for so clearly explaining the D&D. I was so confused and disturbed and completely shattered… just a few months ago. Only after I came upon Sam’s site and other helpful sites I got my first glimpse of the Truth.
I, too, am writing a blog, and have linked your website there. Please let me know if it is OK by you. Searched for a Contact form on your blog, but could not find.. so I was not able to ask your permission first.
This is my blog http://galbtdt.blogspot.com/
Sad Victim sounds quite the opposite of the Sam Vaknin 😦
Hi Sad: Yes, it is fine to link to my blog. I will add your’s to mine.
I am glad the you found my blog and thank you for visiting. I am glad that I was able to explain the D&D for you. Sadly, I was quite an expert there for a time. Thankfully, no longer. 🙂
ES
PS – I am curious how I got the link “Because?”
Hi Elisse:
For years and years and more years, nh would rage whenever I asked the innocuous question ‘WHY?’ for some behavior I would have noticed in somebody or other.. he reprimanded me so severely one day, that I completely ever asking WHY for anything. When I read your post ‘Curtain Call’, I got almost every answer I was looking for in regard to the horrific situation I got pushed into.. I now realise that everything that happened, was provoked and engineered by nh..I scarcely had a choice in reacting the ways I did.. this was before I came across this info on npd on the net via a host of websites. Hence, I have titled the link to your site as ” …because’.
Sad Victim: Got it. Here’s a sweet memory of “why” – when my boys were little they would say “But why, mama?”
I would say “Because why – mama says so.”
🙂
ES
Trying to get to the person I was over four yrs ago is the toughest struggle in my life so far, this coming from a person who buried her husband 10 yrs ago and was left with 2 children to bring up shows how bad it is to have been involved with a N. Still on the NC & its been 5 weeks now. I am trying to heal and this blog is the best thing that ever happend to me. I realise that it wasn’t me and there was never anything else that I could of done to make things work. When am having a bad day these blogs are a click away and then I feel soooo much better.
Thank you for that 🙂
Dear Bluenose: You’ve made my day – letting me know what a help my blog is to you.
It takes a long time to recover from the N.
You’ll get there, don’t worry.
ES
Finding it really difficult at the moment to try and get the N out of my head. Been together on and off for 4 yrs I didn’t know what his problem was until I started to research the silent treatment. Eventually that led me to narcissism, and bloody hell from what I have been reading on these posts, they are all the same. Broke up over 6 months ago now and although I have had quite a few curtain calls we have not met since, am doing the NC theory now but Wow is it hard? As I am sure everyone has found that out. Trying to change my thought patterns from totally besotted to ignore – it is so hard. I am trying to keep myself busy so that I don’t think about him, but there are always times in the day when my mind wanders and that’s not good. I am so much better off without him and hopefully in another 6 months time I will be free in mind of him 🙂 Any help or support from others would help.
x Thanks
Karen Liverpool England x
Dear Karen: It is very difficult. Do not feel bad when you think you should be farther along in your recovery. You were together with the N for 4 years. Just like when the “experts” talk about losing weight – “you didn’t put it on in 6 months – it will take longer than 6 months to take off.” Same with the N.
Read my post FAQ: Missing Pretend Guy. It might be of some help.
I’m sure you’ve read my advice to others.
Get some exercise
Take a walk
Talk an elderly neighbor’s dog for a walk if you are feeling like you need protection.
Read a book
Remember that hobby you used to enjoy? But gave up because the N didn’t want you to enjoy yourself?
Start it up again.
Keep track of your days of NC – It is comforting to see your accomplishments
ES
I love your blog. My mom was an N. Everything I did proved I hated her. In truth, I loved her till the day I layed her to rest. I am happy you are finding freedom. If you would like to visit please do so and let me know if anything in my blog encourages you. Bob M.
Thanks Bob! I have gotten to check out your blog and I am so sorry to hear all the abuse you suffered through. I liked the two posts about healing – “Emotional Healing Can Be Faster When…” & “The Pace of Emotional Healing.” I admitt that I am very raw at the moment, too much so to read the posts with the “warning labels”.
I would like to link them in my blog, but I have not had a chance to do so.
Thank you again for commenting – I really appreciate it. 🙂
ES
I did No Contact for 5 months before I foolishly decided that I could handle “being friends”—-huge mistake. To him, it’s as if I am some droid that he asks a question of and immediately I am supposed to spit out an answer. I went over to his house for dinner and he went upstairs to play drums “for me” while I made the dinner I had been invited over for and then he has the gall to say “you see what I do for you; you see how I sweat for you” regarding his drum playing. OMG!
The next day he messages me, not a hello or that he enjoyed our dinner, but instead another question for me to help with! I lost it and typed the following. His “response” was maddening!
On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Nicole wrote:
“E…I’m frustrated. I was thinking I would feel better, but I don’t. Maybe in a few weeks after your trip we can discuss in person–I need for things to be different.
I am happy to help you when I can, but I don’t want that to be all this friendship is about….one-sidedness—your only contacting me when you need my help with something. I helped with lots on your “to do” list last night, listened to your problems, your drum playing etc…but when I did start to talk about my work or my family…you almost immediately butted in with your own story/anecdote and didn’t let me finish. Now this morning, not even a “good morning” and you are asking for something else—that you can easily figure out. I’ve got stressors and problems too… I want a more balanced relationship.”
[1:15:08 PM] E:
“maid charged me $20.00 per hour…or $80.00 total.. Isn’t that high?”
That was it…no other response! WTF!
Wow – yep, he’s wacked. It’s all about him – no one else matters.
Go back to NO Contact – you can’t be “friends” with an N – but then you’ve figured that out already.
NC is way better than dealing with the wackadoodle.
You’re always sure what NC is going to give you: sanity, peace of mind, release from the N-fog.
ES
My name is not Heely, but there is no reason to believe that I am less of a person because I don’t use my real name. I have tried to communicate with you on this blog as I have a wealth of information to share regarding the narcissist. My mother trained me well. She was the first I met. Now at 47 and still kicking, and thriving it’s interesting that my words are discounted due to my not having my real name on my journal, or my email address. Seems in your case – you have to be it, to talk about it.
Go ahead and talk – your comments were approved for my blog a long time ago. After the week of terror I have had – I am loaded for Grizzly Bear “I am armed and dangerous and my HPB meds are at cruising altitude…”
I don’t think I have EVER deleted one of your comments. My Spam blocker does not consider you Spam.
As Frasier used to say…”Go ahead Seattle, I’m Listening…..”
ES
Hello, this is my first comment on a blog – ever. I’m quite frankly scared to death to comment anywhere on the internet, because I’m fresh out of a relationship with a severely disturbed individual who nearly destroyed me as a person and impacted my entire family. To use my real name I guess is a step in the right direction. Emotions are still very raw and to be honest, I am beating myself up for having been such an easy target for manipulation. The question I have for you is – I am having trouble finding information on recovering from a narcissistic friendship – female/female. Any resources you can point me to would be greatly appreciated. I’m not ready to tell my full story yet….still reeling from it all and trying to make sense of it. Thanks so much.
Dear Toni: I don’t know of specific articles written regarding female/female N friendship. I was “frieNds” with the N – a male? LOL! He was not somatic, but fancied himself quite brilliant,(cerebral) which was ironic since he had actually been a “special education” student in school.
I think anything that you read here or on the web, you can substitute male for a female. The narcissistic behaviors are the same whether the N has boy parts or girl parts.
You choose the time and place to tell your full story, and frankly, on the web, it would be best to speak in generalities.
I will look for female friend N information, but I am guessing that you have already searched for this and not found any specifically devoted to female.
Stay with No Contact and you will keep healing.
ES
I found this on Sam Vankin’s page – he’s a narcissist in case you didn’t know, and he gets his Supply by educating people about narcissists. Go Figure.
Suite 101
Frequently Asked Question # 34
The psychodynamics of male and female narcissists are the same.
Women narcissists differ only in the choice of sources of narcissistic supply which often conforms to traditional gender roles and in the willingness to attend therapy
Question:
Are female narcissists any different? You seem to talk only about male narcissists!
Answer:
I keep using the male third person singular because most narcissists (75%) are males and more so because there is little difference between the male and female narcissists.
In the manifestation of their narcissism, female and male narcissists, inevitably, do tend to differ. They emphasise different things. They transform different elements of their personalities and of their lives into the cornerstones of their disorder.
Women concentrate on their body (many also suffer from eating disorders: Anorexia Nervosa and Bulimia Nervosa). They flaunt and exploit their physical charms, their sexuality, their socially and culturally determined “femininity”. They secure their Narcissistic Supply through their more traditional gender role: the home, children, suitable careers, their husbands (“the wife of…”), their feminine traits, their role in society, etc.
It is no wonder than narcissists – both men and women – are chauvinistic and conservative. They depend to such an extent on the opinions of people around them – that, with time, they are transformed into ultra-sensitive seismographs of public opinion, barometers of prevailing social fashions, and guardians of conformity. The narcissist cannot afford to seriously alienate his “constituency”, those people who reflect his False Self back to him. The very proper and on-going functioning of the narcissist’s Ego depends on the goodwill and the collaboration of his human environment.
True, besieged and consumed by pernicious guilt feelings – many a narcissist finally seek to be punished. The self-destructive narcissist then plays the role of the “bad guy” (or “bad girl”). But even then it is within the traditional socially allocated roles. To ensure social opprobrium (read: attention), the narcissist exaggerates these roles to a caricature.
A woman is likely to label herself a “whore” and a male narcissist to self-style himself a “vicious, unrepentant criminal”. Yet, these again are traditional social roles. Men are likely to emphasise intellect, power, aggression, money, or social status. Women are likely to emphasise body, looks, charm, sexuality, feminine “traits”, homemaking, children and childrearing – even as they seek their masochistic punishment.
Another difference is in the way the genders react to treatment. Women are more likely to resort to therapy because they are more likely to admit to psychological problems. But while men may be less inclined to DISCLOSE or to expose their problems to others (the macho-man factor) – it does not necessarily imply that they are less prone to admit it to themselves. Women are also more likely to ask for help than men.
Yet, the prime rule of narcissism must never be forgotten: the narcissist uses everything around him or her to obtain his (or her) Narcissistic Supply. Children happen to be more attached to the female narcissist due to the way our society is still structured and to the fact that women are the ones to give birth. It is easier for a woman to think of her children as her extensions because they once indeed were her physical extensions and because her on-going interaction with them is both more intensive and more extensive.
This means that the male narcissist is more likely to regard his children as a nuisance than as a source of rewarding Narcissist Supply – especially as they grow older and become autonomous. Devoid of the diversity of alternatives available to men – the narcissistic woman fights to maintain her most reliable Source of Supply: her children. Through insidious indoctrination, guilt formation, emotional sanctions, deprivation and other psychological mechanisms, she tries to induce in them a dependence, which cannot be easily unravelled
——————————————————————————–
But, there is no psychodynamic difference between children, money, or intellect, as Sources of Narcissistic Supply. So, there is no psychodynamic difference between male and female narcissist. The only difference is in their choices of Sources of Narcissistic Supply.
There are mental disorders, which afflict a specific sex more often. This has to do with hormonal or other physiological dispositions, with social and cultural conditioning through the socialisation process, and with role assignment through the gender differentiation process. None of these seem to be strongly correlated to the formation of malignant narcissism. The Narcissistic Personality Disorder (as opposed, for instance, to the Borderline or the Histrionic Personality Disorders, which afflict women more than men) seems to conform to social mores and to the prevailing ethos of capitalism. Social thinkers like Lasch speculated that modern American culture – a narcissistic, self-centred one – increases the rate of incidence of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder. As Kernberg observed:
“The most I would be willing to say is that society can make serious psychological abnormalities, which already exist in some percentage of the population, seem to be at least superficially appropriate.”
I’ve been reading through your blog, Elisse – courtesy of planetjan – and am impressed (not in a narcissistic way!) with all the work you have done. Congratulations!
Thanks Lynette: That’s very kind of you.
ES
I don’t know if you can e-mail me privately…I need some help and quickly. I’ve read through a lot of replies and I know I need to get me and my kids out of a very quickly deteriorating situation, but he has it where I CAN’T get my kids. We live in his hometown where everyone thinks he’s great and I’m a psycho recluse that hides in my house. He has flat told me (with those horrible dead eyes) that I wouldn’t get my kids…so I’ve stayed. Last night was a whole new level of horrible. He came in about once an hour or so and yanked my blankets of me and harassed me. I have to get out, but how do I take my kids (one is 6, the others are a toddler and a baby). He has me looking like the crazy one. Please, please, contact me directly if you can….I don’t know that I’ll be able to check this site again.
Dear Diane:
I cannot contact you by email and have your husband see my response.
I don’t know where you live and you can’t tell me here, but if there is any physical abuse, you need to contact police immediately. Ask the police for the name of a woman’s shelter. It sounds to me like you need to get out and take your children with you.
Where is your family?
Can you call them?
Would they come and get you?
I am seriously not equipped to deal with the situation that it sounds like you are in.
I hope that when your husband goes to work you can grab the essentials for your children and leave.
Do you have a working cell phone that you call 911 on?
Please contact me again to let me know what is happening.
ES
Hello
I have read through your blog and am amazed at how everything you describe regarding the Narc meets my current situation.
I wrote the following poem during the first time he devalued me and I still believed he was the sun. I would like to know what you think.
My situation is very complicated and very difficult. I have not let go just yet but have taken your advice in relation to many things. I admire your honesty and strength in bringing such a crippling and devastating personality disorder to light so that victims can stop blaming themselves and seek for a way’s to break free and have hope again in their lives..
Unavailable Eyes!
Beautiful, amazing, intense, mysterious eyes.
I crave, dream and wish for you on me.
Beautiful, so damn beautiful.
I suffer, tremble, and hurt when you’re distant.
Panic, crumbling mistakes, because I desperately need you.
Amazing eyes, embossed on my brain.
Unavailable raw desire, you have set me free.
Special, unique, unlike any other .
I want your deep, your innocent.
I want to meet your soul.
You picked me, OMG-Yes! You picked me.
Your magical hunger stunned me with unbearable desire.
Beautiful unavailable eyes stirring me deeper than any other.
Protecting my heart. I withheld how special you are to me.
You are above me, you are magic, and I admire you immensely.
Restless inner turmoil and desperate need for you is overpowering.
Pushing you away, but wanting you to want me.
Confused, blind, and desperately seeking your approval.
I LOST you.
Painful regret.
Amazing unavailable eyes.
Shine and smile, you are special.
I dream of you and will always have a light on.
No experience like you.
Hidden true feelings, painful rejection.
For you I lose control.
I feel alive and I love it.
Beautiful unavailable eyes.
Thankyou for giving me the time of my life.
Short, intense and extremely addictive.
My drug of choice. I fight my desire for you daily.
I’ve used deception and self-sabotage.
Forcing you to hate me.
I don’t feel less for you.
I can’t bare that you are thinking badly of me.
Dear unavailable eyes,
I will never forget you.
No matter how far away I travel.
I will think of you and smile.
The powerful, intense and short roller coaster of emotional chaos I have felt in the past few months.
I will always remember as very special because I was dead and you brought me back to life.